Submitted by Erik_Scheibe on

The Gift That Keeps On Giving

Categories
Lifestyle

See this is the problem with the mob mentality.  When it surges without direction or ration, insane concepts slowly morph into rational solutions.  Somehow everyone and their brother seem to think that the big problem and pending solution to the Ray Rice/Domestic Violence controversy is to implement a policy that treats all domestic violence issues with the same standards for punishment...in many people's minds, a "Zero tolerance" policy.

 

 

This mentality satisfies a lot of the mob's thirst for red meat as they devour one person after the next.  The problem is that while popular, it is a stupid concept.  The inability to comprehend the possible layers and levels that comprise the domestic violence enigma leads us into dangerous territory.  It is convenient and fulfilling for everyone to watch the Ray Rice video and sit back fulfilled as they scream for people to be fired and banned from earning a living for the rest of their lives.  It is easy to proclaim that no person should ever put their hands on another person, as if they hadn't really been a part of the human race for several generations.

 

 

Now we have Hope Solo, probably the greatest women's soccer goalie in history.  She has entered the tempest by playing on the U.S. National Team, even though she is facing charges for domestic violence involving her younger sister and her 17 year old cousin (a boy).  By the way, her husband was arrested in a domestic disturbance in the days leading up to her wedding, but wasn't charged.  Now the media is attacking the soccer administrators for allowing her to play.  Clearly they feel that her life should be destroyed as well whether she is guilty or not.  Perhaps her husband's life should have been destroyed and if there is any evidence that her sister and her cousin engaged in any violence as well, perhaps we can add them to the list.

 

 

I bartended on the side for years, and when I was younger worked tons of weddings.  I can't even tell you how often the combination of elevated emotions and alcohol led to circumstances of which people certainly wouldn't be proud.  I would imagine if we took the entire Gotham family (probably one of the least violent subsets one could find) and were magically able to get films of the worst night they've ever had in their lives, we would all be shocked at how high of a percentage there would be that wouldn't stand up to the standard we are trying to establish across the board without any discretion.  If all of you thought to yourself about everyone you know that you can ever remember getting into any type of domestic or family altercation, would you like to see their lives destroyed as a result of their trangressions?  My brother and brother-in-law are both cops and the busiest nights of the year for them are when families spend a lot of time with each other.

 

 

The spectrum of domestic violence is way too gigantic to ever be properly corraled into any kind of a structured policy.  We need to be intelligent people.  We need to use discretion.  Will it always work out perfectly, of course not.  Should Ray Rice have gotten two games, of course not.  But the one thing that I know for sure is that Hope Solo is not the same as Adrian Peterson, who is not the same as Ray Rice, who certainly is not the same as those other two NFL scoundrels who make Ray Rice's infraction look tepid. We have to be careful that we as a society do not continually seek to destroy people blindly and without compassion.

Comments

Submitted by VikramRajan on Tue, 09/23/2014 - 21:50

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Vik Rajan

Emotional control is what it means to be civilized.

Submitted by NULL (not verified) on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 00:10

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Public figures are and should be held to a different standard. If you are paid millions to play a game, in a league that makes billions by selling the attention of consumers that watch that game, don't hit your spouse/girlfriend/children.

Seems simple to me. if you don't have the emotional control to do that, you lose the privilege of becoming a millionaire for playing a game.

I do not think we need to focus on the "spectrum" of domestic violence just as we don't need to focus on the spectrum of rape or murder or manslaughter. Wrong in all instances.

I think it is a huge mistake to point to the history of human violence as an excuse for inaction. We used to do terrible things to each other - we strive to do better. We as a society are capable of making examples out of violent people who bash their fiance's head-in so as to show the world that hitting is wrong. Ray Rice may be paying a big price, but hopefully he is also providing a big lesson; a lesson that over time will make the world safer.

Goodell should be fired because he is terrible at his job and is not worth a fraction of the $44 million/year he earns.

Ray Rice should never play football again, and should consider himself lucky his fiance did not break her skull and die. He graduated from Rutgers with a 3.7. He should have the brains to figure out how to turn this mess into a positive life.

Submitted by Erik_Scheibe on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 01:41

In reply to by NULL (not verified)

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Erik Scheibe

If you are rejecting the spectrum of domestic violence, then you don't understand the problem. You take Ray Rice and Roger Goodell to task, but you completely ignore the situation with Hope Solo, which was the entire point of this blog. Your mind set is a perfect example of part of the problem. Putting the entire problem into a box (narrative) that you are comfortable with, closing it up and getting it out of your sight so that you don't have to deal with a topic that is distasteful and difficult. It's easy to condemn the worst of the worst, but the volume of minor domestic violence infractions dwarf the number of "Ray Rice" type incidents. If we ignore this reality, it will absolutely prevent us from properly combatting the major problem effectively.

Submitted by Erik_Scheibe on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 01:46

In reply to by VikramRajan

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Erik Scheibe

Emotional control is something that is managed by a very small portion of our society. Emotional control 100% of the time is practiced by an even smaller sliver. I will also say that the small sliver of civilization that are able to manage this practice are generally protected by those who have much more urgent challenges than emotional control. It is all just a reality of human nature at this snapshot on the path of evolution.
Rona Gura

Goodell makes $44 million?? Fire his ass. I'll do the job for $40 million. :)

I do not think the Ray Rice "backlash" is about a thirst for blood.Moreover, it is not about Ray Rice acting drunk and stupid at his wedding. He physically assaulted his then fiancee. As anonymous wrote, public figures should be held to a strict standard. They are modelling behavior to our children. I deal with domestic violence very often in my practice. It is an epidemic. Every aspect of our society, including public figures, must send the message that it should not be tolerated by a civilized society.

And lastly, as a practical matter, Rice must have a morals clause in his contract, which he clearly violated.

Submitted by TheodoreLanzaro on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 01:55

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Theodore Lanzaro

Ray Rice is not really banned from earning a living permanently. He can apply for reinstatement once he has served his punishment or find another job, start a business, or if he was smart with his money, live off his investments. In reality, he could actually have been put in prison for what he did - so he should consider himself fortunate that he is just suspended from the league. He has still made millions of dollars and hopefully put a little of it away for a rainy day (or year).

I also think that Goodell should be fired for the way he handled not only the Rice situation but the last few weeks as well. He let the Ravens lobby him for leniency get in his way of doing what was right in the first place. It's only a matter of time until the media proves that there was a cover-up in this matter.

I do agree that there are levels of severity and the punishment should reflect those levels. Knocking out your fiancé is certainly different from shoving your brother in law at the family picnic, etc... And I don't agree that everyone should lose their job for it. It's up to the legal system to determine the consequences for ordinary citizens.

I do agree that 99% of people could not live up to the same scrutiny if it was applied to their worse night(s). All of us have things in our lives that we wish never happened. It's part of life and how we learn lessons.
Cynthia Somma

Well said Erik. As a mother of a son that has played soccer since he was four...even though he was never going to make the big leagues...I can't help but think of the countless hours he spent practicing/playing...and the sacrifices our family has made. Whether it be late night games, games out of state...weddings, parties all missed.
Now the right to earn a living is gone. The shame and heartache must be immense.
It should go without saying that I am not an advocate of domestic violence. I believe that these matters should be handled personally. I'm pretty sure I couldn't fire an employee over what goes on in their lives.
I also believe we should all be held to a higher standard not just athletes or entertainers.
Erik is correct, there is no "one size fits all"
Ester Horowitz

Erik, I completely disagree. I'm sending you a blog that my children have asked me not to make public for about one year because the person involved just died to give you insights about domestic violence and violence in general that lasts lifetimes even in one act. Ray Rice and those like him should be punished for what they did. No Amount of anything warrants a vicious attack like that. As for the other, their level of stupidity and lack of insight is what is showing up now.

Submitted by NULL (not verified) on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 04:46

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So it is OK for athletes, who we encourage our children to look up to, respect and emulate, to sometimes be excused from domestic violence? Really? What kind of message does that send? What if they do drugs? Are there times when we should turn the other cheek to that as well? I for one do not think so.

Submitted by StephenMichel on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 04:59

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Stephen Michel

Erik, I completely agree with you. These individuals are human. Yes they make big money. But they are, like all of us, capable of making tragic mistakes. To paraphrase Jesus, Those without guilt can throw the first stone. If this is Rice's first incident. If he seems truly sorry. If he is willing to seek therapy. Is a judge supposed to throw him jail? I am not condoning violence against women or others. What I am saying is the mob mentality, the idea of zero tolerance and we throw the book at every offender is not the answer. The answer, I believe, is that an impartial judge makes a fair judgement and try to fit the punishment to the crime. Understanding that judges can make mistakes.

To all those who want to get rid of Goodell for blowing a call and admitting he blew it, why not punish everyone who makes a mistake. Are you trying to hold him to a higher standard than you hold yourself, your employees or your children. Or to ask it another way. (I am picking on attorneys because we have so many in the group) If an attorney hits and kills a child while speeding, should they lose their license to practice law. Or if the attorney hits his wife? Or to be fair, if the wife, who is an attorney, hits her husband.

To those of who who demand blood. If you can hold yourself and your family to the same standard, then go for it.
Donald Bernstein

I think without question there HAS to be a zero tolerance policy for this, and to comment on the last post, to drug use by athletes as well. The question of the punishment is an interesting one though. In professional cycling, drug use can result in a suspension or a permanent bar from the sport, depending on a number of factors. I think though physical violence rises to a different level and when it comes to a professional athlete there should be no tolerance and no mitigating circumstances. Period.

Submitted by NULL (not verified) on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 05:22

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Donna Levine wrote to the person who said they couldn't fire their employees for such an infraction, you could if you had a morals clause in their contract. The athletes are held to a higher standard because they contract themselves to be held to a higher standard. So no boo hoo for them. There was a video of Ray Rice speaking to kids telling them how you have to make the right decisions and how your decisions effect your entire life. Well he didn't follow his own advice and all those kids who listened to his lecture must now be saying he was full of it. So much for the lesson he was teaching. Vic went to jail and the NFL found a place for him I suspect the same will be done with Peterson, Rice and all the others
Fred Klein

This is why we blog: to generate discussion, opinions and comments.

Submitted by Janet_Adler on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 07:07

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Janet Adler

I think Eric, that you are tying to play the devils advocate. This is called VIOLENCE. Not domestic altercations. VIOLENCE...ACTING In A WAY TO MAIM, HURT OR KILL ANOTHER. Rice deserves zero tolerance. This is not a mob response. This is a belated response to an old problem which is escalating in a very public way. Rice and Solo are the same. Maybe some day the lawyers can divide this into many different cases ....Domestic Abuse, Domestic Disturbance, Domestic Yelling, Domestic Hitting etc. Until that happens we need to deal with Domestic VIOLENCE and the public persona. It's about time Eric, and if examples are made perhaps some of it will stop.
Corey Bearak

Bottom line more resources need to be devoted to combat domestic violence. People at the top get greater access to help (and obviously faced greater pecuniary loss) but it happens too much. I researched some of my work in City government and I refreshed my memory that with in a week of the Superbowl, there is V-Day to address violence against women. I do not have the current stats handy but 13 years ago when we issued a statement that "Looks At The Faces Behind Domestic Violence Statistics" nearly 1 in 3 adult women experience at least one physical assault by a partner, and nationally 70% of intimate partner homicide victims are women. I do not know how these #s changes but even if they declined by 1/2, too much such violence occurs. No tolerance seems a good policy in that light. Just over 13 years ago, the statement I collaborated on for then Borough President Fernando Ferrer stated "Behind these numbers are faces — faces of women who continue to be brutally assaulted by their partners. The faces of women who are raped. We must be loud and clear in letting perpetrators know that they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for these horrendous crimes. We must hold those government agencies who service victims accountable for providing services in an efficient and effective manner." More recent events makes clear we must hold those who make big bucks because the public invests their time and resources in what they do just as accountable. We did "one-pagers" on issues in advance of the 2001 mayoral campaign; the Domestic violence piece started with is declaration: "I believe that the crime of domestic violence must be dealt with as seriously as any other potentially fatal crime, including prosecuting it to the fullest extent of the law." The final sentence of the opening paragraph concluded: "Domestic violence not only hurts the victim, but in some cases can lead to child abuse, both emotional and physical." Email me off list if you want to read the full document.

Submitted by Erik_Scheibe on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 14:20

In reply to by NULL (not verified)

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Erik Scheibe

Did you even bother reading what I wrote?
Erik Scheibe

I appreciate you reaching out Ester. Based upon your comment, I am confused about what you disagree with in my blog.

Submitted by Erik_Scheibe on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 14:34

In reply to by Janet_Adler

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Erik Scheibe

All due respect, while I appreciate your comment, I absolutely am not. Many people are just assuming what I am saying rather than reading my actual words and thinking about the points I am trying to make. I have never defended or made excuses for Ray Rice's action. His action was not even the crux of this blog, it was Hope Solo. In fact, your comment has actually reinforced some of my points. You conflate Hope Solo and Ray Rice and say that they are the same, yet you, nor I, even know what actually happened...or if it is even true. That is in fact a mob mentality response that you probably would not have given before this whole thing blew up because it is not a rational response. The law does currently break down different kinds of assault. It is the bloodthirsty public, responding emotionally and irrationally to a serious problem that wants to lump it all together without discretion. I was not playing devil's advocate, but my blog has inadvertently proven my point.
Erik Scheibe

The blog was not about Ray Rice, the wedding example was given to put other circumstances of "domestic violence" into perspective if we are going to seek to have a "zero tolerance" policy on something. I can imagine how often you deal with domestic violence in your practice...you above anyone can understand the inevitable tragedies that would take place by implementing a policy that removes discretion.

Submitted by Erik_Scheibe on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 14:41

In reply to by NULL (not verified)

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Erik Scheibe

So if Hope Solo's career is ruined because she was accused of something she didn't do, or for acting in a manner that some might consider admirable, you wouldn't feel bad for her?

Submitted by Erik_Scheibe on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 14:58

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Erik Scheibe

I'm good on the document. I wonder what anyone thinks has been accomplished by the campaign piece. Interesting also that your candidate mentions rape. Somehow we are alright with laws that allow a man to rape a woman, but not go to prison for life, but when he strikes a woman, we feel a sense of accomplishment by kicking him off his sports team. I am not minimizing domestic violence, just saying that it is a curious objective to reach with satisfaction.

Submitted by Erik_Scheibe on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 15:01

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Erik Scheibe

I find some of the responses stunning and wonder if many actually even read what I wrote. At no point, at any time did I defend Ray Rice. I wanted to know how people felt about Hope Solo being allowed to play and how that fit in with the public clamoring for a "Zero tolerance policy." It kind of reinforces my point that we react to this topic so emotionally that it prevents us from being rational.

Submitted by NULL (not verified) on Wed, 09/24/2014 - 23:44

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Hi Erik,

My initial comment was #2 above. I do not see any area to place my name and do not like to comment anonymously.

- Josh Bernstein

I did read your blog. Quite carefully in fact.

"It is convenient and fulfilling for everyone to watch the Ray Rice video and sit back fulfilled as they scream for people to be fired and banned from earning a living for the rest of their lives."

My assumption here was that when you say "people to be fired" you were referring to Rice. That read to me like a defense of him; a defense that I find to be misplaced.

I think the difference between Solo and Ray Rice is well articulated by Brian Pinero from the National Domestic Violence Hotline:

“In the Ray Rice case, we’re talking about a smoking gun video that clearly shows someone who committed a crime. With respect to Hope Solo, all we have right now is a police report. She has not gone through the judicial process yet.”

I think this is why she is still playing and I don't find the question of how people feel about that nearly as compelling as your musings about domestic violence in general.

My interpretation of your blog is that a "Zero tolerance" policy towards domestic violence is "a stupid policy." I find that to be a reckless, dangerous, and dispassionate opinion.

Submitted by Erik_Scheibe on Thu, 09/25/2014 - 03:23

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Erik Scheibe

First Josh thank you for commenting, for identifying yourself and for the engaged discussion. I will assume that you are new to Gotham and as such you should definitely take an interest in seeing the different benefits accessing the Gotham web site can provide. If you log in with your name and password, it will automatically post your comment with your name attached.

The comment about people being fired actually doesn't just refer to Ray Rice, but calls for Roger Goodell and even people in the Ravens organization to be fired. I admit that it doesn't necessarily mean they would be officially banned for life, but if someone is fired in a high profile case like this, nobody in their industry will ever go near them again. The point I was making was the lack of discretion that is being suggested in prospective policies pushed by the undeniable mob mentality that currently is driving this case. There is a player on the 49ers that people want to be removed from the line-up immediately, who has not been. The 49ers have said that they have looked at the case and believe that they should wait until the case plays itself out. There are also many people who say
'of course Rice has done this before'...without a single shred of evidence (including testimony from the wife) that there has ever been another incident. Domestic violence is not just a crime, but a problem. As I have stated before, the only thing worse than an abusive husband is an unemployed abusive husband. That doesn't mean that Rice shouldn't be punished, it means kicking him out of football and sending him and his wife on their way really doesn't help anyone except those of us at home watching.

I think that your interpretation of my "musings on domestic violence" are completely off-base. Many blog commenters often project their ideas of who I am and what I believe in, creating things that I did not say and do not believe. You essentially defend Hope Solo continuing to play using a comment from someone from the domestic violence hotline as if it refutes my position. In fact, I completely agree with you. The point of my question was to get people's feelings about that topic and to point out that the "Zero tolerance" policy people are seeking would prevent her or anyone else accused from playing until due process is given. I agree with his comment, but his comment would be irrelevant should such a policy be enacted. You interjecting his comment into the discussion essentially puts us on the same side with regards to maintaining discretion in adjudicating these types of cases.

In addition, him pointing out that Ray Rice's evidence being clear from the video further strengthens my point. I would imagine we are looking at less than 5% of all domestic violence charges having such clear evidence, probably far less. That would almost make using Rice's case to establish policy foolish. Hope Solo's case is far closer to the enigmatic evidence and accusations we are usually left to sift through in these cases, which is a big part of why they are so often not prosecuted the way we would like.

I do sincerely thank you for the discussion. People often steer clear of topics that are challenging, usually because they are afraid of what people will think. I try to engage intelligently, fairly and in civil discourse.

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