[Fredslist] US Government's legal arguement on CLOUD Files
Raj Goel, CISSP
raj at brainlink.com
Mon Nov 5 16:07:14 EST 2012
Ask them why their legal counsels have admitted that using their products in through EU violates data privacy laws.
Ask them why they're selling products that enable global Patriot Act repatriations.
They might be using them because they've got the legal firepower to take on the feds.
They might be using the cloud for the same reason Big Tobacco sells cigarettes.
Most terms of service are user unfriendly.
A kid infects 500 machines, he (rightfully) gets a jail sentence.
Sony infects 500000 and they pay a small fine.
You did read Google & rackspace & Amazon's TOS recently, didn't you?
Did any of them mention ECPA?
-- Raj
917-685-7731
Raj at brainlink.com
Danny Mizrahi <dm at contangoit.com> wrote:
>Then simple question, why is it that all of *these *companies are okay
>with
>having their data with on *Rackspace's cloud?*
>
>Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, Motorola, Intel, Nike, Atari, MTV, WB,
>Sony/BMG,
>Forbes, Marvel, HSBC, American Express, MARSH, First Republic Bank,
>Hershey's, Home Depot, Payless, Sprint, TMobile, Bluetooth, Verizon....
>
>That's *just *Rackspace, and an *addition* to the other lists I sent.
>
> Danny Mizrahi
>
> p: (212) 737-0608
> m: (516) 606-4326
> f: (877) 737-2282
> www.contangoit.com
>
>
>
>On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Raj Goel, CISSP <raj at brainlink.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Honest businesses, including soldiers deployed overseas, and several
>> congressional offices & senatorial offices lost data on Megaupload.
>>
>> Hundreds of businesses died when the FBI shutdown McColo a few years
>ago.
>>
>> Here's the crux of the problem.
>>
>> Think of the cloud as Grand Central station.
>>
>> You can use GCT to go home, buy food or deal drugs.
>>
>> In the real world, the FBI doesn't strip search and arresr everyone
>> because a few people sold illegal drugs.
>>
>> Online, if 1 company commits a crime, EVERYONE ELSE is viewed as
>being
>> equally guilty. And burden of proof is upon you to prove your
>innocence.
>>
>> Just because you shared a subway train with a bank robber doesn't
>make you
>> an accessory.
>>
>> In the cloud, having your data in the same facility or with the same
>> provider does.
>>
>> These are the 1st, 4th & 5th amendment rights that the government and
>> large corporations want to erase...in the name of convenience and
>security.
>>
>>
>> -- Raj
>>
>> 917-685-7731
>> Raj at brainlink.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Danny Mizrahi <dm at contangoit.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Love it!!! Thanks Raj. Great stuff. Interesting topic and looking
>>> forward to seeing the results. Here's more explanation and links in
>case
>>> anyone is interested:
>>>
>https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/governments-attack-cloud-computing
>>>
>>> My point was (still is) that all of those companies I listed, did
>not
>>> just lose the rights to all their data. Common sense says
>otherwise.
>>> Lionsgate and Netflix didn't lose all their movies. National
>Geographic
>>> didn't lose their images, etc, etc. Honest businesses have nothing
>to
>>> worry about. Businesses that break laws, do and should be worried
>about
>>> putting their data elsewhere.
>>>
>>> ...and Facebook should be illegal everywhere!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Danny Mizrahi
>>>
>>> p: (212) 737-0608
>>> m: (516) 606-4326
>>> f: (877) 737-2282
>>> www.contangoit.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Raj Goel, CISSP
><raj at brainlink.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Danny,
>>>>
>>>> Per their arguement, ANY/ALL cloud providers face the same
>risk.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, according to the DOJ, placing unauthorized GPS
>trackers
>>>> was valid. When the courts ruled that illegal, they grabbed
>cellular
>>>> location and metadata - which WAS deemed legal.
>>>>
>>>> Last week, the courts ruled that 24/7 monitoring, thermal
>imaging
>>>> and overhead viewing using drones and cameras in non-curtillage
>areas is
>>>> perfectly legal.
>>>>
>>>> Once this argument takes hold, the legal standard (until
>>>> overturned by the Supreme Court or via an act of congress) will
>mean that
>>>> any files stored online will be considered fair game.
>>>>
>>>> The right approach would be for
>>>> Google/Amazon/Apple/Microsoft/Rackspace to fight this ruling.
>>>>
>>>> But doing that would cut into their Government sales
>contracts,
>>>> and tie their hands.
>>>>
>>>> Just remember that BOTH Amazon and APPLE consider it their
>right
>>>> to remotely delete or wipe files on your kindle's and
>ipods/iphones/ipads.
>>>>
>>>> And finally, megaupload was only illegal in the US. it WAS
>(and
>>>> still Is) legal in New Zealand. The FBI broke NZ laws and
>illegally
>>>> grabbed this data.
>>>>
>>>> By that definition, Facebook is illegal in most muslim
>countries.
>>>> Google Apps is illegal in China.
>>>> Facebook/Amazon/Rackspace/ATT/Microsoft/Google are in
>violation of
>>>> the EU Human Rights acts/data privacy laws.
>>>>
>>>> So, which provider is illegal? In WHICH jurisdiction?
>>>>
>>>> And users should check the laws how often - daily? weekly?
>>>> annually?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --Raj
>>>>
>>>> Rajesh Goel, CISSP
>>>> cell (917) 685-7731
>>>> CTO: Brainlink International, Inc.
>>>> raj at brainlink.com
>>>> www.brainlink.com
>>>> www.linkedin.com/in/rajgoel
>>>> www.rajgoel.com
>>>> You run your business, and leave the IT to us.
>>>>
>>>> Author of "The Most Important Secrets To Getting Great Results From
>IT"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- Original message ---
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Fredslist] US Government's legal arguement on CLOUD
>>>> Files
>>>> *From:* Danny Mizrahi <dm at contangoit.com>
>>>> *To:* "Raj Goel, CISSP" <raj at brainlink.com>
>>>> *Cc:* Freds List <fredslist at gothamnetworking.com>
>>>> *Date:* Monday, 05/11/2012 3:08 PM
>>>>
>>>> So don't put your files with a company like "megaupload" (see here
>for
>>>> why: http://megauploa**d.co <http://megaupload.com/>m). They were
>>>> criminals. That wasn't a real company. There were copyright
>infringement
>>>> animals. If "Goodwin" was stupid enough to put all his data with
>>>> a company that was OBVIOUSLY breaking the law in the most severe
>ways, then
>>>> he doesn't deserve his files back. So the moral of the story is to
>make
>>>> sure you know who's cloud you're dealing with. That's like saying
>if you
>>>> put your files with the Taliban, expect them to not be given back.
>Yes,
>>>> your files will be gone if you give them to the Taliban and the
>Taliban
>>>> gets killed or goes to jail. Good luck getting your files back.
>>>>
>>>> Good thing our clients are with Rackspace, Amazon and Google. We
>have
>>>> about 140 clients, and not one of them experienced one second of
>downtime
>>>> to their email. We're very proud of that. Physical servers were
>shut
>>>> down, Cloud Servers stayed up.
>>>>
>>>> *Look at this list of companies that use Amazon's
>cloud<http://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/>,
>>>> including Netflix, Pinterest, Ericsson, Lionsgate, Nasdaq, PBS,
>Spotify,
>>>> Yelp, IMDB, NYU School of Medicine, Pfizer, Ticketmaster, Unilever,
>>>> Lamgorghini, and many more.*
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *Look at this list of companies that use Google
>Apps<http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/customers/index.html#tab0>,
>>>> including United States General Services Administration, Yale,
>Brown
>>>> University, Heinz, National Geographic, Orbitz, US Holocaust
>Museum, United
>>>> Bank and Trust, and many more.*
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *Look at this list of companies that use
>Rackspace<http://www.rackspace.com/managed_hosting/support/customers/>:
>>>> ~40% of the Fortune 100!, Living Social, Bluetooth, Mazda,
>Domino's, Six
>>>> Flags, and many more.*
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> You're telling me all of these companies are being fooled, and
>their
>>>> data isn't secure? All of these companies just lost ALL of the
>rights to
>>>> their data? No wayyyyyy.
>>>>
>>>> With love, hugs n kisses,
>>>>
>>>> Danny
>>>>
>>>> Danny Mizrahi
>>>> [ Image ]
>>>>
>>>> p: (212) 737-0608
>>>> m: (516) 606-4326
>>>> f: (877) 737-2282
>>>> www.contangoit.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Raj Goel, CISSP
><raj at brainlink.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Gothamites,
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are using the cloud, or planning to, you may
>want
>>>>> you read this -
>>>>>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/04/eff_feds_goodwin_megaupload/
>>>>>
>>>>> The government arguments are that *Goodwin cannot demonstrate any
>>>>> “ownership” over the servers, since he merely paid for a service*.
>>>>> Moreover, while conceding that Goodwin might have the right to
>assert his
>>>>> copyright, that is “not sufficient to establish that he has an
>ownership
>>>>> interest in the property that is the subject of his motion – the
>copies of
>>>>> his data, if any, which remain on Carpathia’s servers”
>>>>>
>>>>> The DOJ is arguing that once you upload files to a 3rd party, you
>>>>> renounce all ownership to them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --Raj
>>>>>
>>>>> Rajesh Goel, CISSP
>>>>> cell (917) 685-7731
>>>>> CTO: Brainlink International, Inc.
>>>>> raj at brainlink.com
>>>>> www.brainlink.com
>>>>> www.linkedin.com/in/rajgoel
>>>>> www.rajgoel.com
>>>>> You run your business, and leave the IT to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Author of "The Most Important Secrets To Getting Great Results
>From IT"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Fredslist mailing list
>>>>> Fredslist at gothamnetworking.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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