[Fredslist] US Government's legal arguement on CLOUD Files

Mon Nov 5 15:53:01 EST 2012

Then simple question, why is it that all of *these *companies are okay with
having their data with on *Rackspace's cloud?*

Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, Motorola, Intel, Nike, Atari, MTV, WB, Sony/BMG,
Forbes, Marvel, HSBC, American Express, MARSH, First Republic Bank,
Hershey's, Home Depot, Payless, Sprint, TMobile, Bluetooth, Verizon....

That's *just *Rackspace, and an *addition* to the other lists I sent.

 Danny Mizrahi

 p:  (212) 737-0608
 m: (516) 606-4326
 f:   (877) 737-2282
 www.contangoit.com

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Raj Goel, CISSP <raj at brainlink.com> wrote:

> Honest businesses, including soldiers deployed overseas, and several
> congressional offices & senatorial offices lost data on Megaupload.
>
> Hundreds of businesses died when the FBI shutdown McColo a few years ago.
>
> Here's the crux of the problem.
>
> Think of the cloud as Grand Central station.
>
> You can use GCT to go home, buy food or deal drugs.
>
> In the real world, the FBI doesn't strip search and arresr everyone
> because a few people sold illegal drugs.
>
> Online, if 1 company commits a crime, EVERYONE ELSE is viewed as being
> equally guilty. And burden of proof is upon you to prove your innocence.
>
> Just because you shared a subway train with a bank robber doesn't make you
> an accessory.
>
> In the cloud, having your data in the same facility or with the same
> provider does.
>
> These are the 1st, 4th & 5th amendment rights that the government and
> large corporations want to erase...in the name of convenience and security.
>
>
> -- Raj
>
> 917-685-7731
> Raj at brainlink.com
>
>
>
> Danny Mizrahi <dm at contangoit.com> wrote:
>>
>> Love it!!!  Thanks Raj.  Great stuff.  Interesting topic and looking
>> forward to seeing the results.  Here's more explanation and links in case
>> anyone is interested:
>> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/governments-attack-cloud-computing
>>
>> My point was (still is) that all of those companies I listed, did not
>> just lose the rights to all their data.  Common sense says otherwise.
>>  Lionsgate and Netflix didn't lose all their movies.  National Geographic
>> didn't lose their images, etc, etc.  Honest businesses have nothing to
>> worry about.  Businesses that break laws, do and should be worried about
>> putting their data elsewhere.
>>
>> ...and Facebook should be illegal everywhere!!
>>
>>
>>  Danny Mizrahi
>>
>>  p:  (212) 737-0608
>>  m: (516) 606-4326
>>  f:   (877) 737-2282
>>  www.contangoit.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Raj Goel, CISSP <raj at brainlink.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Danny,
>>>
>>>       Per their arguement, ANY/ALL cloud providers face the same risk.
>>>
>>>       Remember, according to the DOJ, placing unauthorized GPS trackers
>>> was valid.  When the courts ruled that illegal, they grabbed cellular
>>> location and metadata - which WAS deemed legal.
>>>
>>>       Last week, the courts ruled that 24/7 monitoring, thermal imaging
>>> and overhead viewing using drones and cameras in non-curtillage areas is
>>> perfectly legal.
>>>
>>>       Once this argument takes hold, the legal standard (until
>>> overturned by the Supreme Court or via an act of congress) will mean that
>>> any files stored online will be considered fair game.
>>>
>>>       The right approach would be for
>>> Google/Amazon/Apple/Microsoft/Rackspace to fight this ruling.
>>>
>>>       But doing that would cut into their Government sales contracts,
>>> and tie their hands.
>>>
>>>       Just remember that BOTH Amazon and APPLE consider it their right
>>> to remotely delete or wipe files on your kindle's and ipods/iphones/ipads.
>>>
>>>       And finally, megaupload was only illegal in the US. it WAS (and
>>> still Is) legal in New Zealand.  The FBI broke NZ laws and illegally
>>> grabbed this data.
>>>
>>>       By that definition, Facebook is illegal in most muslim countries.
>>>       Google Apps is illegal in China.
>>>       Facebook/Amazon/Rackspace/ATT/Microsoft/Google are in violation of
>>> the EU Human Rights acts/data privacy laws.
>>>
>>>       So, which provider is illegal?  In WHICH jurisdiction?
>>>
>>>       And users should check the laws how often - daily?  weekly?
>>> annually?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --Raj
>>>
>>> Rajesh Goel, CISSP
>>> cell (917) 685-7731
>>> CTO: Brainlink International, Inc.
>>> raj at brainlink.com
>>> www.brainlink.com
>>> www.linkedin.com/in/rajgoel
>>> www.rajgoel.com
>>> You run your business, and leave the IT to us.
>>>
>>> Author of "The Most Important Secrets To Getting Great Results From IT"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Original message ---
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Fredslist] US Government's legal arguement on CLOUD
>>> Files
>>> *From:* Danny Mizrahi <dm at contangoit.com>
>>> *To:* "Raj Goel, CISSP" <raj at brainlink.com>
>>> *Cc:* Freds List <fredslist at gothamnetworking.com>
>>> *Date:* Monday, 05/11/2012 3:08 PM
>>>
>>> So don't put your files with a company like "megaupload" (see here for
>>> why: http://megauploa**d.co <http://megaupload.com/>m).   They were
>>> criminals.  That wasn't a real company.  There were copyright infringement
>>> animals.  If "Goodwin" was stupid enough to put all his data with
>>> a company that was OBVIOUSLY breaking the law in the most severe ways, then
>>> he doesn't deserve his files back.  So the moral of the story is to make
>>> sure you know who's cloud you're dealing with.  That's like saying if you
>>> put your files with the Taliban, expect them to not be given back.  Yes,
>>> your files will be gone if you give them to the Taliban and the Taliban
>>> gets killed or goes to jail.  Good luck getting your files back.
>>>
>>> Good thing our clients are with Rackspace, Amazon and Google.  We have
>>> about 140 clients, and not one of them experienced one second of downtime
>>> to their email.  We're very proud of that.  Physical servers were shut
>>> down, Cloud Servers stayed up.
>>>
>>> *Look at this list of companies that use Amazon's cloud<http://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/>,
>>> including Netflix, Pinterest, Ericsson, Lionsgate, Nasdaq, PBS, Spotify,
>>> Yelp, IMDB, NYU School of Medicine, Pfizer, Ticketmaster, Unilever,
>>> Lamgorghini, and many more.*
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *Look at this list of companies that use Google Apps<http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/customers/index.html#tab0>,
>>> including United States General Services Administration, Yale, Brown
>>> University, Heinz, National Geographic, Orbitz, US Holocaust Museum, United
>>> Bank and Trust, and many more.*
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *Look at this list of companies that use Rackspace<http://www.rackspace.com/managed_hosting/support/customers/>:
>>> ~40% of the Fortune 100!, Living Social, Bluetooth, Mazda, Domino's, Six
>>> Flags, and many more.*
>>> *
>>> *
>>> You're telling me all of these companies are being fooled, and their
>>> data isn't secure?  All of these companies just lost ALL of the rights to
>>> their data?  No wayyyyyy.
>>>
>>> With love, hugs n kisses,
>>>
>>> Danny
>>>
>>>  Danny Mizrahi
>>> [ Image ]
>>>
>>>  p:  (212) 737-0608
>>>  m: (516) 606-4326
>>>  f:   (877) 737-2282
>>>  www.contangoit.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Raj Goel, CISSP <raj at brainlink.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gothamites,
>>>>
>>>>             If you are using the cloud, or planning to, you may want
>>>> you read this -
>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/04/eff_feds_goodwin_megaupload/
>>>>
>>>> The government arguments are that *Goodwin cannot demonstrate any
>>>> “ownership” over the servers, since he merely paid for a service*.
>>>> Moreover, while conceding that Goodwin might have the right to assert his
>>>> copyright, that is “not sufficient to establish that he has an ownership
>>>> interest in the property that is the subject of his motion – the copies of
>>>> his data, if any, which remain on Carpathia’s servers”
>>>>
>>>> The DOJ is arguing that once you upload files to a 3rd party, you
>>>> renounce all ownership to them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --Raj
>>>>
>>>> Rajesh Goel, CISSP
>>>> cell (917) 685-7731
>>>> CTO: Brainlink International, Inc.
>>>> raj at brainlink.com
>>>> www.brainlink.com
>>>> www.linkedin.com/in/rajgoel
>>>> www.rajgoel.com
>>>> You run your business, and leave the IT to us.
>>>>
>>>> Author of "The Most Important Secrets To Getting Great Results From IT"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Fredslist mailing list
>>>> Fredslist at gothamnetworking.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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